Subtle duplicate issues but huge rank problem

[danieljc]

Alright so, I'm an organic SEO and I have limited experience in local and am going through Linda's training.

For my first application of this material I am hoping the good folks and pros in this forum will help supplement my education with some insights into my first local ranking problem case.

The business ranks unusually low in its own category in local. They are #28 in maps for their primary search in Dallas. The category is laser hair removal. From what I understand from the owner, the business used to rank in what was then the 7 pack a year and a half or so ago.

The site also doesn't rank well organically. I'm addressing causes for this but I'm still not clear from the training on your opinions on the correlation between organic and local rankings and I would like to know this as a side point. For example, I've had clients who had keywords that were ranking as low as #10 but were able to make it into the 3 pack. I understand the "disconnect" issue, but I still am not totally clear on the more subtle connection between organic and local rankings. I've seen that a site that ranks #1 in organic can outrank others in business listings with fewer citations, ect. so there's obviously a connection.

Anyway, sorry, back to local.....

Based on the amount of time you guys spend talking about duplicates, I'm taking it that even a single partial dup is a game changer.

Here are the dup issues that I found for this business:

Business main listing:

https://maps.google.com/?cid=6023688286133713494

Associated Google Plus Pages:

https://plus.google.com/+AdvancedskinfitnessDallas/about
https://plus.google.com/109438558991804511467/about
https://plus.google.com/117748161699778883721/about

Potential Dup Issues:

1. They spun off a separate brand to target keywords relating to laser hair removal for men with:
https://maps.google.com/?cid=9811340784932795199
- Name different
- Phone number different (last digit)
- Address SAME
- Domain different
- Category SAME

This spun-off brand ranks slightly higher than main business in primary search.

2. There is a doctor listing (but the doctor is now retired and no longer there) with the following characteristics:

- Name of doctor only, no business name
- Phone number SAME
- Address SAME
- Domain different
- Category different

I don't find other dup issues using the techniques currently available and mentioned in this forum.

Questions:

1. It seems to me that the spun off brand listing is the most damaging even though it has a different phone number and website because it shares the same category and address. Can closing this listing make a big difference for the primary business?

2. The doctor listing shares the phone number and address and since the doctor is retired and no longer there, I will try to get it taken care of. But I'm not clear what is better after reading this forum, asking Google to close the location or leaving it alone since it doesn't share the same category?

3. Clarify how do the other Google plus pages affect rankings if at all?

4. What role do the citations for the other brand and the doctor play in this?


Thanks in advance for your help.

 

[Linda Buquet]

Hi Daniel,

Thanks for posting and providing links and background.

Dupe issues not so subtle... read on...

This one is a little complicated for people to help you with on the forum because it takes a lot of research. And someone really needs to take time to do a deep dive. My carpal is killing and I had to dig a lot but can't really do much more. Let me tell you what I found.

The 1st 2 G+ pages you listed don't count really because they are not verified Local pages.

In addition to that Dr Chili page, Dr Armani also has a page with yet a 3rd website.
https://plus.google.com/u/0/107309701262777540750/about
Site: Dallas Hair Transplant Surgery for Men - Hair Restoration Dallas

Normally the Dr would have a page on the main site thatsmore of a bio page about the Dr and not keyword rich to try to rank that page. But in this case the Dr has a whole site filled with all the services and keywords the main site is targeting too. So the Dr site is also competing with the practice site.

Advanced Skin and Advanced Men's are really competing since they have the same categories.

Plus Advanced Men's I'm pretty sure is a violation. It says they are next door, but no suite #, same Dr and lots of overlap in services and KWs. Street view looks like it's only Advanced Skin on the sign and that's one of the things Google moderators look at to determine if it's really one business or 2.

But in addition, I think it's obvious to Google that all 3 sites are interrelated and at same address.
And they are all 1) competing for the same KWs. 2) Confusing Google.

Check the about page on the Advanced Men's site.
About - Advanced Men's Clinic

It talks about Dr Armani and mentions Advanced Skin a lot. Then even though Advanced Men's also does hair services, it even says that Advanced skin also does laser hair removal.
(That page also says that Chili is still there too BTW.)

So even if you don't look at the G+ L pages, do you see how it's obvious to Google the 3 sites are referencing each other, competing for the same keywords and are at the same location?

Google does not rank you these days based on categories alone like it used to. (Because now technically you are only supposed to pick one) but it ranks largely on what Google thinks the business does based on site content.

Looks like what we have here is a case of a Dr that thinks divide and conquer is the way to rank.
When in reality with Google "united we stand" is by far the strongest strategy.

So that's just a summary of what I see, no carpal energy left to explain how to fix and too complicated for me to try to type out all the advice. Sorry I typed way more than I should have. Hurting.

Weekends are slow here so others may not chime in til Monday but if a lot of other posts come in this one will get buried. So add a comment Monday to bump it back up to the top to get more feedback if you don't get other replies by then.

 

[danieljc]

Thanks Linda,

Yeah I forgot to include the info on the other doctor listing. In addition to above, active doctor listing features same address and phone number. Doctor has a different website but there are references to the main business on that website.

Anyone who has advise on best way to approach this, I'm eager to listen.

- Mark retired doctor as closed?
- Mark spun off brand as closed, or change its category?
- Get client to change website of active doctor to a page on the main site?
- Other measures?

As Linda says, Google doesn't rank off categories anymore but off what the onsite content shows the site to be about. Therefore, it almost seems like the only way to address this one is to have client discontinue the second brand, close the second site and listing?

 

[JoyHawkins]

Daniel,

Duplicates are definitely a ranking killer and it looks like you have many.

https://plus.google.com/+AdvancedskinfitnessDallas - a non-verified brand page (can be deleted)
https://plus.google.com/109438558991804511467 - a non-verified brand page (can be deleted)
https://plus.google.com/117748161699778883721 - connected to maps - does impact ranking and needs to be dealt with

The other listing you referenced that's the men's is most likely a violation (I didn't do a full audit so I'm guessing it is based on just looking) and is most likely causing issues.

There is also one for Dr Abraham Armani that you didn't list that is also claimed and needs to be dealt

To answer your specific questions.


1. It seems to me that the spun off brand listing is the most damaging even though it has a different phone number and website because it shares the same category and address. Can closing this listing make a big difference for the primary business? Yes, and closing this would not be the solution. Closing is meant for businesses that have closed down or moved. I can't say for sure what I'd do here without knowing a lot more about the business and this "spin-off".

2. The doctor listing shares the phone number and address and since the doctor is retired and no longer there, I will try to get it taken care of. But I'm not clear what is better after reading this forum, asking Google to close the location or leaving it alone since it doesn't share the same category? Usually leaving it alone, but it really depends on a few factors.

3. Clarify how do the other Google plus pages affect rankings if at all? Some do - I mentioned the ones that do

4. What role do the citations for the other brand and the doctor play in this? They are very important - they give weight to the specific listings they match up with.