Better to put City Before or After Keyword

[Phil Rozek]

@Travis

I totally see what you mean, and agree it's good to break out of the shell of lameness that separates so many businesses from good results. But I'm also a fan of front-loading title tags. Balancing the two is tough, of course, and sometimes it's better to err on the "PPC ad" side of it, as you suggest. Guess it all depends.

 

[Travis Van Slooten]

@Linda:

I need to clarify my position. I've been so involved in city landing pages lately and had just responded to another thread in here about city landing pages when I made this reply that I meant Google rarely rewrites your title tags in the organic search results (not the G+ listings). Google definitely rewrites the title tag almost all the time in the 7 pack but not so much in organic listings - at least in my experience anyway. The only time I've seen Google rewrite the title tags then is if you're searching for a long tail keyword or something that is close but not the exact keywords and cities you are targeting.

Travis Van Slooten

 

[Localwinner]

Maybe a stupid question: But does not the adwords keyword tool easily tell us what people are searching for? Or does the exact match not differentiate the sorting?

 

[iFuse]

The problem that I have seen with the Google Keyword Planner is that it will show the exact same searches for city+keyword as keyword+city. I'm not sure how valuable that tool is for this type of research. IMO...

 

[Linda Buquet]

Maybe a stupid question: But does not the adwords keyword tool easily tell us what people are searching for? Or does the exact match not differentiate the sorting?

Not for many lower volume local keywords.

In smaller cities for instance if you want to compare: Escondido Dentist and Dentist Escondido there will be no search volume usually.

 

[Margaret Ornsby]

I know this thread is a bit old, but I'm curious about something.

If we take the example of the "landscaping company Minneapolis", of the pages that are websites, some of the titles Google rewrites (in organic) , and some it doesn't. Does anyone know why that is?
It seems to happen more frequently on those that put the company name in the title, but even that's not completely consistent.

I know the guidelines say to brand the title page - particularly the home page. https://support.google.com/webmasters/answer/35624?hl=en

But Travis's suggestion also seems more enticing than Google's version, and less prone to being chopped.
If we put the company name in, then the kw + city formula can partly disappear (unless you have kw in your biz name).

This is confusing - following the guidelines or aiming for conversions...? Maybe that's why they've shortened the titles - to try to put more emphasis on the meta desc? But I really wonder how many people bother to read the desc or just click on the nearest title that looks good to them.


Organic title: Bluhm Brothers Landscaping, Inc.: Minneapolis St Paul ...
<title>Minneapolis St Paul Landscape Design and Installation Company :: Bluhm Brothers Landscaping, Inc.</title>

Organic title: APL Landscape Solutions: Landscaping Company ...
<title>Landscaping Company Minneapolis, MN, Landscape Supplier | Brick Paver Driveways & Patios | APL Landscape Solutions</title>

Organic title: Southview Design: Minneapolis MN Landscape Design and ...
<title>Minneapolis MN Landscape Design and Construction | Southview Design</title>

Organic title: Terravista Design Landscaping contractor ? Minneapolis, St ...
<title>Terravista Design Landscaping contractor ? Minneapolis, St. Paul, MN</title>


Organic Title: Field Outdoor Spaces: Minneapolis & St. Paul Urban Natural ...

<title>Minneapolis & St. Paul Urban Natural Landscaping – Field Outdoor Spaces</title>

Organic title: #1 Minneapolis Landscaping | Landscaping MN Experts | St ... <title>#1 Minneapolis Landscaping | Landscaping MN Experts | St. Paul & More</title> Organic Title: Landscapers Minneapolis - Landscape Design and Project ... <title>Landscapers Minneapolis - Landscape Design and Project Management</title>

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[iFuse]

I know this thread is a bit old, but I'm curious about something.

If we take the example of the "landscaping company Minneapolis", of the pages that are websites, some of the titles Google rewrites (in organic) , and some it doesn't. Does anyone know why that is?
It seems to happen more frequently on those that put the company name in the title, but even that's not completely consistent.

I know the guidelines say to brand the title page - particularly the home page. https://support.google.com/webmasters/answer/35624?hl=en

But Travis's suggestion also seems more enticing than Google's version, and less prone to being chopped.
If we put the company name in, then the kw + city formula can partly disappear (unless you have kw in your biz name).

This is confusing - following the guidelines or aiming for conversions...? Maybe that's why they've shortened the titles - to try to put more emphasis on the meta desc? But I really wonder how many people bother to read the desc or just click on the nearest title that looks good to them.


Organic title: Bluhm Brothers Landscaping, Inc.: Minneapolis St Paul ...
<title></span><font color="#000000"><span style="font-family: monospace">Minneapolis St Paul Landscape Design and Installation Company :: Bluhm Brothers Landscaping, Inc.</span></font><span style="font-family: monospace"></title>

Organic title: APL Landscape Solutions: Landscaping Company ...
<title></span><font color="#000000"><span style="font-family: monospace">Landscaping Company Minneapolis, MN, Landscape Supplier | Brick Paver Driveways & Patios | APL Landscape Solutions</span></font><span style="font-family: monospace"></title>

Organic title: Southview Design: Minneapolis MN Landscape Design and ...
<title>Minneapolis MN Landscape Design and Construction | Southview Design</title>

Organic title: Terravista Design Landscaping contractor ? Minneapolis, St ...
<title></span><font color="#000000"><span style="font-family: monospace">Terravista Design Landscaping contractor ? Minneapolis, St. Paul, MN</span></font><span style="font-family: monospace"></title>


Organic Title: Field Outdoor Spaces: Minneapolis & St. Paul Urban Natural ...

<title>Minneapolis & St. Paul Urban Natural Landscaping ? Field Outdoor Spaces</title>

Organic title: #1 Minneapolis Landscaping | Landscaping MN Experts | St ... <title></span><font color="#000000"><span style="font-family: monospace">#1 Minneapolis Landscaping | Landscaping MN Experts | St. Paul & More</span></font><span style="font-family: monospace"></title> Organic Title: Landscapers Minneapolis - Landscape Design and Project ... <title></span><font color="#000000"><span style="font-family: monospace">Landscapers Minneapolis - Landscape Design and Project Management</span></font><span style="font-family: monospace"></title>

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Not sure if you have seen this video from Mr. Cutts on this subject, not sure how much it adds but may be worth a view.

 

[Localwinner]

Not for many lower volume local keywords.

In smaller cities for instance if you want to compare: Escondido Dentist and Dentist Escondido there will be no search volume usually.

ok, I see. To see if people rather search for "city + KW" or "KW + city" I would take some bigger cities, like LA or NYC and look how people search these markets. My hypothesis would be, that the sorting does not change if people search in a big or small city. Why would they switch the sorting only because they are in a small city....

About the same search volumes in keyword planer for both sortings. At least for my test search in san francisco, the search volumes differ (see attached Screenshot)

 

[Linda Buquet]

Great point about using bigger city Peter!

I would just use a city that's regionally close to client because search patterns can change regionally.

For example about a year ago I did a post about how to use Google Trends for regional KW research and in LA tons more search for "City Attorney" but in NY more search for "Lawyer City".