shatterjack

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Thanks for any help, my business has been going for eleven years, has always listed well, but recently it has been slipping and I have been trying to figure it out, one issue is in maps, it appears when searching "laser cutting service" which is my business category (it shows up right at the top) and "laser cutting los angeles" again it shows right at the top but when I search for "laser cutting" or "laser cutter" it disappears completely while all my competitors show up, and I mean not even after scrolling through 160 businesses, by the end they had nothing to do with laser cutting in any way. I'd really appreciate any ideas anyone has for why this is, I have a good presence online with local seo stuff, reviews etc, I don't list the address as I don't want people coming by when I'm not there and getting upset I wasted their time since google doesn't have a by appointment only option, I used to just hide the address and have a marker in the general area of the shop but that hasn't been an option for a while I think, I had to switch to a SAB.

Also for some reason even though I am a SAB there is still an option for directions which tries to go to a coordinate pair that is way on the westside of los angeles in a random spot, I think it used to use los angeles city hall.

Thanks again for any help

maps page
 
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djbaxter

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SABs often don't go on maps because they may have several locations they serve. But wait until one of the experts logs in for a more definitive and you'll likely get a more comprehensive and helpful answer.
 

Tim Kahlert

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My best guess is that you show up for "Laser Cutting Service" or "Laser Cutter Los Angeles" because these terms partially match your business name. Your name is just more relevant to these queries than to only "laser cutter".
Relevant content on your website and backlinks can help increase relevance for the terms you're not yet ranking for. Btw I can't see the directions button on my end when searching with an unbiased local rank checker.
 

shatterjack

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My best guess is that you show up for "Laser Cutting Service" or "Laser Cutter Los Angeles" because these terms partially match your business name. Your name is just more relevant to these queries than to only "laser cutter".
Relevant content on your website and backlinks can help increase relevance for the terms you're not yet ranking for. Btw I can't see the directions button on my end when searching with an unbiased local rank checker.

Hi Tim,

Thanks so much for the reply, I totally get that the business name pulls a lot of weight, but I thought I would at least show up eventually for “laser cutting” or “laser cutter” at some point in the list of businesses but like I said even after scrolling through all eight pages of results and over 160 businesses my business doesn’t show up at all. It doesn’t even show up for “laser cutter Los Angeles” now on maps while in search I’m the second business that appears (not including the obligatory yelp link). It feels like something is broken on my site or somewhere else maybe?
 

jlw

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Have you used GMB everywhere chrome extension. You may be able to find out a little about you competitors profiles from there with a free audit? Do you have any reviews that mention laser cutter? I had an issue with a service area business last week not showing up and the map being a bit messed up. I added some extra service areas and got a few people to search for the profile and click on it and it seemed to sort it out.

You can actually add appointments needed to the attributes. I get why you don't want it but you do have an advantage if you have a pin in the map.
 

keyserholiday

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Google made a drastic change last year to help with user intent. So when businesses were able to show a KP for laser cutting Los Angeles, Google saw this as more of a search for businesses in Los Angeles that offer this service. This was Google's attempt to stop keywords in the business name from being used as a ranking factor.
 

shatterjack

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Have you used GMB everywhere chrome extension. You may be able to find out a little about you competitors profiles from there with a free audit? Do you have any reviews that mention laser cutter? I had an issue with a service area business last week not showing up and the map being a bit messed up. I added some extra service areas and got a few people to search for the profile and click on it and it seemed to sort it out.

You can actually add appointments needed to the attributes. I get why you don't want it but you do have an advantage if you have a pin in the map.
Google made a drastic change last year to help with user intent. So when businesses were able to show a KP for laser cutting Los Angeles, Google saw this as more of a search for businesses in Los Angeles that offer this service. This was Google's attempt to stop keywords in the business name from being used as a ranking factor.

Thanks a lot for the replies, my reviews on gmb and yelp both do mention laser cutting, laser cut, laser cutter (not all of them but some of them do).

I'm sorry I'm not sure what a KP is, I was more trying to figure out why I'm (suddenly, not sure when I stopped showing up for it) not appearing in searches for "laser cutting" and "laser cutter" when my category is "laser cutting service" and even after going through eight pages of businesses in the list view my business doesn't appear at all even though sheet metal companies, print shops and even a video production shop show up as well as several businesses that haven't claimed their listing and some shops that have been out of business for years. I'm just trying to figure out why everyone else's listings appear but not mine?

Also totally coincidentally today I got an email from GMB saying google changed my business name on my profile from Lasers Over Los Angeles - Laser Cutting Service (it's been this way for 6-8 years I'd guess) to Lasers Over Los Angeles. Should I keep it this way or revert it? Most of the listings have it as the longer name, and it looks like the algo changed most of my competitors as well.

I'm sorry if you explained this already and I didn't get it, thanks a lot for your help
 

keyserholiday

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As far as your business name it has to match how you are registered online. If you have a DBA or city license with the name of Lasers Over Los Angeles - Laser Cutting Service then you can update your business name. If not, you can't as it would violate Google's TOS.

A Knowledge Panel (KP) is when your business is featured on the right-hand side of the search results.
judas-cutting-Google-Search.jpg




You need a comprehensive SEO audit on your website and need to hire a Local SEO firm to help you to rank.
 
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Tony Wang

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Those search results are a little bit strange, but I agree, it might take some work to figure out exactly why. I do see you popping up for "laser cutters" though not for "laser cutter"

Have your leads from Google and/or website traffic actually dropped off since you stopped showing up for those searches?

btw, your website definitely looks diy compared to others. I'm not saying that's the cause, but it will affect conversions. Especially your main header image, which tells nothing about what you do.

As for hiding your address, since you have a physical location, I would definitely show the address and don't list any hours, that is the preferred method for "by appointment only". Not showing hours should highly discourage anyone from just showing up (and definitely make that prominent on your website.) It's not ideal, and for sure Google should fix that but don't hold your breath.
 

shatterjack

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As far as your business name it has to match how you are registered online. If you have a DBA or city license with the name of Lasers Over Los Angeles - Laser Cutting Service then you can update your business name. If not, you can't as it would violate Google's TOS.

A Knowledge Panel (KP) is when your business is featured on the right-hand side of the search results.
judas-cutting-Google-Search.jpg




You need a comprehensive SEO audit on your website and need to hire a Local SEO firm to help you to rank.

Those search results are a little bit strange, but I agree, it might take some work to figure out exactly why. I do see you popping up for "laser cutters" though not for "laser cutter"

Have your leads from Google and/or website traffic actually dropped off since you stopped showing up for those searches?

btw, your website definitely looks diy compared to others. I'm not saying that's the cause, but it will affect conversions. Especially your main header image, which tells nothing about what you do.

As for hiding your address, since you have a physical location, I would definitely show the address and don't list any hours, that is the preferred method for "by appointment only". Not showing hours should highly discourage anyone from just showing up (and definitely make that prominent on your website.) It's not ideal, and for sure Google should fix that but don't hold your breath.

Thanks for the replies, my business is registered as the longer "Lasers Over Los Angeles - Laser Cutting Service" mostly because some listing services don't have a laser cutting category, but I was just concerned that google would see it as keyword stuffing or something and secretly penalize me?

Thanks for saying the search results seem strange as I was beginning to think I was taking crazy pills as the firms I talked to would always just brush it off. I'm not sure when I stopped listing for those terms but search and calls have definitely fallen off recently.

A lot of seo firms seem to want to "manage" my listing but I would be more likely to want someone to do more of an audit of my listing and website and fix/optimize things, this seems to happen every few years with my business, things are fine and I have a good position online, then boom things drop off until I figure out some issue that was dragging me down, does anyone have any suggestions for that type of service? Thanks again for your help
 
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jlw

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Thanks for the replies, my business is registered as the longer "Lasers Over Los Angeles - Laser Cutting Service" mostly because some listing services don't have a laser cutting category, but I was just concerned that google would see it as keyword stuffing or something and secretly penalize me?

Thanks for saying the search results seem strange as I was beginning to think I was taking crazy pills as the firms I talked to would always just brush it off. I'm not sure when I stopped listing for those terms but search and calls have definitely fallen off recently.

A lot of seo firms seem to want to "manage" my listing but I would be more likely to want someone to do more of an audit of my listing and website and fix/optimize things, this seems to happen every few years with my business, things are fine and I have a good position online, then boom things drop off until I figure out some issue that was dragging me down, does anyone have any suggestions for that type of service? Thanks again for your help

I think having a more modern type of website would help, fortunately, your site is built using WordPress so there are lots of options available to you. Who looks after your website at the moment (software updates, security and content updates)

I offer a standalone service where I optimise local businesses' Google Business Profiles and give them a strategic plan of how to keep getting the most out of their profiles (either managing it themselves or as a monthly service where I manage their profile for them.)
I also build and optimise WordPress websites and work with people on their SEO, again either as a 1 off service or as ongoing management so there are definitely options out there for you. Looking at your website traffic there was a drop-off in May which corresponds with what you're saying. without showing up in the local pack I think you may have trouble getting people to find your website as it is at the moment.
 

keyserholiday

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Thanks for the replies, my business is registered as the longer "Lasers Over Los Angeles - Laser Cutting Service" mostly because some listing services don't have a laser cutting category, but I was just concerned that google would see it as keyword stuffing or something and secretly penalize me?

Thanks for saying the search results seem strange as I was beginning to think I was taking crazy pills as the firms I talked to would always just brush it off. I'm not sure when I stopped listing for those terms but search and calls have definitely fallen off recently.

A lot of seo firms seem to want to "manage" my listing but I would be more likely to want someone to do more of an audit of my listing and website and fix/optimize things, this seems to happen every few years with my business, things are fine and I have a good position online, then boom things drop off until I figure out some issue that was dragging me down, does anyone have any suggestions for that type of service? Thanks again for your help

Where did you register your business? I can't find a SOS filing for you.
Those search results are a little bit strange, but I agree, it might take some work to figure out exactly why. I do see you popping up for "laser cutters" though not for "laser cutter"

Have your leads from Google and/or website traffic actually dropped off since you stopped showing up for those searches?

btw, your website definitely looks diy compared to others. I'm not saying that's the cause, but it will affect conversions. Especially your main header image, which tells nothing about what you do.

As for hiding your address, since you have a physical location, I would definitely show the address and don't list any hours, that is the preferred method for "by appointment only". Not showing hours should highly discourage anyone from just showing up (and definitely make that prominent on your website.) It's not ideal, and for sure Google should fix that but don't hold your breath.

I don't agree that the map pack results look odd at all. Google has made a lot of updates since last year with how location-based search terms are shown. I had a client who had an exact match business name for his city and service. While he was suspended, Google updated the search results and he lost his KP. He never got it back.

If that really is your registered name and you have paperwork to prove it, you can correct your business name. None of your citations show that business name nor did any list your address. In order to list an address, you must have permanent signage showing your full business name. All of your citations show a hidden address. I can't see, verify your address, that you have signage, nor I was able to find any registered paperwork for you. If you were to get suspended updating your name and address, you will need to furnish both with the reinstatement process.
 

shatterjack

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I think having a more modern type of website would help, fortunately, your site is built using WordPress so there are lots of options available to you. Who looks after your website at the moment (software updates, security and content updates)

I offer a standalone service where I optimise local businesses' Google Business Profiles and give them a strategic plan of how to keep getting the most out of their profiles (either managing it themselves or as a monthly service where I manage their profile for them.)
I also build and optimise WordPress websites and work with people on their SEO, again either as a 1 off service or as ongoing management so there are definitely options out there for you. Looking at your website traffic there was a drop-off in May which corresponds with what you're saying. without showing up in the local pack I think you may have trouble getting people to find your website as it is at the moment.

Where did you register your business? I can't find a SOS filing for you.


I don't agree that the map pack results look odd at all. Google has made a lot of updates since last year with how location-based search terms are shown. I had a client who had an exact match business name for his city and service. While he was suspended, Google updated the search results and he lost his KP. He never got it back.

If that really is your registered name and you have paperwork to prove it, you can correct your business name. None of your citations show that business name nor did any list your address. In order to list an address, you must have permanent signage showing your full business name. All of your citations show a hidden address. I can't see, verify your address, that you have signage, nor I was able to find any registered paperwork for you. If you were to get suspended updating your name and address, you will need to furnish both with the reinstatement process.
Thanks for the replies, I do appear in the local 3 pack when searching “laser cutting los angeles” which is my major source of traffic and usually either 3rd or 4th search result below.

I’m not a corporation or llp so I don’t have to register w SOS, just city of LA, and just pay my business tax every year:) Would it be better to use the longer business name you think?

The citations I see (mapquest, yahoo, yellowpages, yelp, bing some others) all have the longer name as far as I can see?

Anyway the main question was, it seems weird that my category is “laser cutting service” and I appear as the first or second result in maps but I don’t show up at all (even waaaay down the list) for “laser cutting” or “laser cutter” but everyone else does? Thanks again for you help and info
 

jlw

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Where did you register your business? I can't find a SOS filing for you.


I don't agree that the map pack results look odd at all. Google has made a lot of updates since last year with how location-based search terms are shown. I had a client who had an exact match business name for his city and service. While he was suspended, Google updated the search results and he lost his KP. He never got it back.

If that really is your registered name and you have paperwork to prove it, you can correct your business name. None of your citations show that business name nor did any list your address. In order to list an address, you must have permanent signage showing your full business name. All of your citations show a hidden address. I can't see, verify your address, that you have signage, nor I was able to find any registered paperwork for you. If you were to get suspended updating your name and address, you will need to furnish both with the reinstatement process.

I'm in the UK 🙂
 

JoyHawkins

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I see this scenario all the time. [keyword + city] is a much easier keyword pattern to rank for than [keyword]. So tons of businesses rank for one and not the other. There isn't necessarily a simple trick to rank for both, you just have to work on improving the site and getting links to it (what goes into SEO). Having someone do a comprehensive audit on the site, as mentioned by others, is a good idea if you're not sure where to start.

For starters, I would look at getting rid of the blog roll on your homepage and adding a lot of content that describes what you offer. This site does a decent job at it: American Laser Cutter
 

shatterjack

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I see this scenario all the time. [keyword + city] is a much easier keyword pattern to rank for than [keyword]. So tons of businesses rank for one and not the other. There isn't necessarily a simple trick to rank for both, you just have to work on improving the site and getting links to it (what goes into SEO). Having someone do a comprehensive audit on the site, as mentioned by others, is a good idea if you're not sure where to start.

For starters, I would look at getting rid of the blog roll on your homepage and adding a lot of content that describes what you offer. This site does a decent job at it: American Laser Cutter

Hi Joy,

Thanks a lot, that makes a lot of sense, are you talking about ranking for a keyword on maps or search? I totally get that, I’m not really trying to rank for just the keyword in search since a lot of that is like the wiki page for laser cutting and buying a laser cutter, but for maps since it already has some location info of your search I thought I should at least show up in a maps search for “laser cutter” and “laser cutting” when positioned over los angeles but I don’t even after scrolling through a ton of businesses that eventually aren’t even tangentially related to laser cutting but mine fails to appear, this is the thing that made me think something is messed up in my profile or something is broken? Again if I was on the twentieth page of results way down then I would be like ok I just need to work on my seo stuff, I mean I know I definitely need to do that too but it just seems like there’s something else going on too? Thanks a lot for checking things out, I really appreciate it
 

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