Business not showing up for categories in maps, only for Phone / Biz Name + City

[MattCheah]

Hi all,


I've been experiencing a problem with a few of my clients recently. I've been seeing that some businesses show up when I search for their phone number or their business name + City, State, but they don't show up when I do a search for their categories.


Let me give you an example:


Liz Royce Massage Therapy
5220 Clark Ave Ste 317
Lakewood CA 90712
(562) 756-9291
https://plus.google.com/100611126171599617205/about?gl=US&hl=en-US


Categories are:
Massage Therapist
Swedish Massage
Sports Massage Therapist
Body Wrap
Waxing Hair Removal Service


And searches for these categories do not turn up any results for Liz Royce Massage Therapy, not even when I zoom in all the way to the client's location and then perform the search. Not even a search for "Waxing Hair Removal Service" turns up anything, and that's a terrible custom category that no one would ever search for. (Unfortunately it was requested by the client.)





This is happening to clients all over, even in rural areas where it would otherwise be extremely easy to rank well. I've kept a track of a bunch of clients (~15-20) and if they fulfill certain criteria that may be causing them to not rank for certain categories. These are as follows:


How many categories are showing online: (usually 1/5, at most 2)
If categories on Mapmaker match the ones in the dashboard: (Mostly Yes)
If the address is hidden when it needs to be: (Around 50/50. For the ones whose addresses needed to be hidden, I hid them immediately but after checking back in a few weeks placement has not moved. Other businesses though, like the previous example, didn't need their business to be hidden, or already had it hidden.)
Business Name Stuffing?: (Mostly No)
Name/location or Categories in Description? (Rarely. Some of them have at 1 category in the description but I read somewhere that this was generally ok. Please correct me if I'm wrong.)
Any other problems that may affect the listing? (Very few. One or two were merged listings and some of them weren't completed to 100%.
Time since Pin Verification: (All 3+ months)


Does anyone have any insight into what may be happening here? Am I overlooking something or just doing something wrong? Or is this just generally accepted as something that google does? Please let me know, thanks so much!

 

[MiriamEllis]

Hi Matt,
This isn't likely the root of what you're seeing with your massage client, but one of those categories is in violation of the is-not-does rule. 'Body Wrap' says what the client does...not what the client is. That needs to be fixed.

 

[MattCheah]

Hi Miriam,

Thanks! I'd seen this guideline before but I guess I never considered it super important because of all the emphasis people put on stuffing. Has anyone seen listings get punished only for this issue before?

 

[Linda Buquet]

Matt I've only seen one IS not DOES rule violation penalty but it was severe.

Dentist called me once. Cats were: Dentist, cosmetic dentistry, teeth whitening, dental implants, Invisalign.

In other words the main cats most dentists want/use. ALL are violations except the 1st one.

They were suspended and support told them very directly it was due to the IS not DOES rule. But that's the only one I've ever heard of.

NOTE: there could be something else going on with that one..

BUT THERE IS SOMETHING NEW HAPPENING... and she fits the pattern.

The TCs and I have been seeing a growing # of listings that DISPLAY as if they are brand new listings that are not ranking yet because too new and have not worked into the local database yet.

SYMPTOMS: Just like this one: No "Similar Places" at the bottom of the page. No Map Maker history. (these symptoms would be NORMAL for a newly verified listing and once the "Similar Places" section shows up on the listing, that's usually from what I've tracked about the time they start ranking.

The TCs and I have brought it up to Google several times and asked what would make a mature listing seemly start over in the ranking cycle like this and act like a newly verified listing. We're seeing it a lot!!!

We have not been able to get any answers from Google. (But I'm pretty sure I know what's up.)

DID YOU BY CHANCE record the CID# when you 1st started account? (Important new troubleshooting technique I stress in my training for this and many other problems.) OR do they by chance have a map embedded on their site? Or a link to the old style Places URL they maybe have in an email from giving to clients to review them. That would have the CID too.

Because if you can track down the previous CID I can pretty much bet we'd see this is a new CID and that would prove that's the situation - then you'd know it was a temporary problem just until they work back into the local database again.

 

[MattCheah]

Thanks for your response Linda!
Unfortunately I did not record the CID number, but I'm very happy to know that this isn't an issue that is unique to my clients.
I did check out the history tab on mapmaker for some of my listings and they all said "Could not generate history for this feature." I did find something interesting though - when I clicked "Edit" and then clicked "History," it showed that all of the listing information had been "Newly Added" 1 second ago, by Google Automated Places Data Copier. (It did this for every account I checked) I googled this username resulting in the finding that the feature I edited wasn't in mapmaker at the time of editing. (https://groups.google.com/forum/?fromgroups=#!topic/google-mapmaker/vxUHq95-40U)




This doesn't quite make sense to me because all of the information was there and correct before I even clicked edit. Do you think it was just showing the data from google places but wasn't in the actual Mapmaker database? And if so would this be a reason for my listing not showing up for its categories, or do you think this is completely unrelated and unimportant?


Thanks!

 

[Colan Nielsen]

This doesn't quite make sense to me because all of the information was there and correct before I even clicked edit. Do you think it was just showing the data from google places but wasn't in the actual Mapmaker database? And if so would this be a reason for my listing not showing up for its categories, or do you think this is completely unrelated and unimportant?

This is the norm Matt. I would say it has some pretty deep implications, but just how much correlation there is with your issue is still a bit of a mystery.

This thread has some interesting points related to this - http://localsearchforum.catalystema...can-map-maker-poke-jumpstart-new-listing.html

 

[Flash]

What you saw in Map Maker is normal. There are multiple databases, and bots sync new information constantly. When you look in Map Maker, it shows you not only what is on it's database, but what is also showing on Maps that has yet to be synced over from Places. When you click Edit, you initiate a transfer, as it must be on the Map Maker database in order to be edited. The fact that it was not on Map Maker yet would not be the reason you are not showing for your categories; but it is an indicator that the listing is very new and thus you are likely not ranking as it takes weeks in order to do so.

 

[MattCheah]

Thanks Colan and Flash,

So would you guys say that that the only thing I can do for now is to sit tight and wait for Google to fix this "Old Listing acting like a new listing" problem that Linda pointed out?

One of the things that confuses me is why some of my categories would show up (sometimes on the first page) and others wouldn't. I would assume that if a listing is completely new all of the categories would start ranking at the same time after Google refreshes the information it has. Maybe this isn't the case?

 

[Flash]

There is nothing to "fix". It appears that if there was an issue, it has been fixed by creating a new listing for you. Now it is like any other listing, the rankings will move up over time.

Rankings are highly influenced by organic results, so how fast you rank and how high you go will depend a lot on the organic ranking of each category.

You should record the CID of your listing for future reference.

 

[Linda Buquet]

One of the things that confuses me is why some of my categories would show up (sometimes on the first page) and others wouldn't. I would assume that if a listing is completely new all of the categories would start ranking at the same time after Google refreshes the information it has. Maybe this isn't the case?

OK was in a rush to head out to Dentist appt and missed that nuance.

IF the problem is what I though previously it would not rank for ANY KW searches at all. It would only show up when you search for map for name + city or phone.

So if it IS ranking for some KWs then that suggests another issue.

I just peeked at web site and wonder about penalty there. I can't find them at all ranking in PURE organic either. I think that title tag is a problem. Way too long and main KW "massage" repeated 5 times. Pretty sure Google dings for that.

But that would not account for not showing in maps search.

There is nothing to "fix". It appears that if there was an issue, it has been fixed by creating a new listing for you.

Re a FIX. Gregg he's referring to what I said above and I was going to email you to ask you about this.

This post: http://localsearchforum.catalystema...showing-up-categories-maps-only.html#post9621

The part about mature listings that are ranking and fine. Then suddenly drop out of rankings. Lose the similar places section. Suddenly no map history. Appears Google deleted and started over with a new CID?

Any idea what would cause that to happen? Or have you heard about anything like that on the maps side?