New "Business Moved" Feature for Google+ Local Listings

[Linda Buquet]

Hey guys, news I can finally share about a new update that's just starting to roll out now.

Google now has an option to show a business has moved (Instead of is Permanently Closed). I know I previously shared the messaging on the tag had been improved but that was only the 1st step.

Now there will even be a LINK to the new listing, informing potential customers WHERE the business moved to! (And at new location, where it moved from.)

Here is the info from Jade:

Just a quick heads up that we are launching an improved interface on pages for businesses we know have moved locations.

- On the old location, a link to the new location will appear.

- On the new location, a link to the old location will appear.

- On the new location, there will also be a link to see reviews and photos from the old location.

This will only appear for pages that we know represent businesses that have moved. Business owners can tell us that a page is an old location and where the new one is by:
- click Edit business details
- select "Place is permanently closed"
- fill in the new address in the text box
- This is outlined in this Help Center article.

I just broke the news last week about that new help doc for MOVING. In case you missed it, read about it here: http://localsearchforum.catalystema...-finally-releases-how-move-local-listing.html

NOTE: The changes above are JUST starting to roll out now. We are waiting to find an example that even shows it and I think more info will be coming too. STAY TUNED here, for more news as soon as I get it!

ALSO NOTE: Right now you can only see the move link in Map search, the info is not showing on the G+ L page yet, but I believe it will be soon.

I want to take the time to THANK Google and be sure you all know that they DO listen and are often working on changes in the background that ARE a solution to some of the problems we face. This is a great example of a long term problem some of us have been pushing for change on for a long time, that's finally coming to fruition. So Thanks Google for listening and implementing this change!

IMPORTANT SIDE NOTE: We have a brand new forum for SPECIFIC Google+ Local issues and "moving and rebranding" is one of the new forums. So now you can find all the best posts on that topic all in one place here: Moving or Name Changes

 

[Flash]

re: New "Business Moved" Feature for Google+ Local Listings

Not to rain on your parade; but there has been no changes to the options in Map Maker.

Following the directions they have given you just creates a "This place has been marked as closed." edit in Map Maker for us to approve. The comments do not even get sent over, something we told them way back when the new community edits screen was rolled out at the same time as Google+ Local. If the notes did come through then reviewers could create a new listing at the new location (if there wasn't already one there), but we have not way of linking the two.

However, remember this post? If a reviewer gets an edit that closes a location, we do our due diligence to see if it did close. During our research we would find that it didn't close, but it moved. Following the guidelines, we would deny the edit and set up our own edit to change the address.

So when I said the notes above would help if they actually came through, I was giving the hypothetical that Places seems to think we would do. In reality, even if the notes came through with the new address, what we would end up doing is denying the edit and changing the address on the existing listing (after independently confirming).

Finally, I can't imagine that someone is going to then go through all the Delete-Closed edits around the world that hundreds of reviewers have approved to see if there are hidden notes with a new address in them. (Keep in mind that most will have notes, but not with an address).

 

[Linda Buquet]

re: New "Business Moved" Feature for Google+ Local Listings

Not to rain on your parade; but there has been no changes to the options in Map Maker.

So when I said the notes above would help if they actually came through, I was giving the hypothetical that Places seems to think we would do. In reality, even if the notes came through with the new address, what we would end up doing is denying the edit and changing the address on the existing listing (after independently confirming).

The paragraph I quoted - that was in reference to in-city moves like we discussed before - the disconnect between the MM guidelines and GP advice on whether you need to close and open new, right?

Well as far as the rest. What you bring up is discouraging. Wonder if since it's just rolling out they have not yet tried to get things to jive on the MM side of the house?

But if it's NOT a matter of you guys needing to edit for some reason. But a business owner or consultant just using the new system and doing it right it should still work right? Your comments are only if a mapper gets involved and needs to edit a listing???

 

[Flash]

re: New "Business Moved" Feature for Google+ Local Listings

My comments are if an owner or consultant follows Jade's instructions. I just found a business in my town that moved and pretended I was a consultant.






The section Jade is telling you to use is called Community Edits. It creates a regular Maps edit, which Map Maker users then review. Me doing the above has created an edit waiting for someone else to review.

 

[Andrew Sawyer]

re: New "Business Moved" Feature for Google+ Local Listings

The paragraph I quoted - that was in reference to in-city moves like we discussed before - the disconnect between the MM guidelines and GP advice on whether you need to close and open new, right?

Well as far as the rest. What you bring up is discouraging. Wonder if since it's just rolling out they have not yet tried to get things to jive on the MM side of the house?

But if it's NOT a matter of you guys needing to edit for some reason. But a business owner or consultant just using the new system and doing it right it should still work right? Your comments are only if a mapper gets involved and needs to edit a listing???

Has this been spotted in the wild yet or just a pre-announced change? I'd like to see it in the wild as there are many ways Google could implement such a change.

*Edit* I didn't see Flash's edit before posting above. It looks like the UI for GMM needs updating to reflect the Moving notes

 

[Flash]

Re: HOORAY! New "Business Moved" Feature for Google+ Local Listings

I guess what I should have also mentioned is the process after you follow Jade's directions.

If you, as a consultant, do it for a business within my city, then:

• Chances are I'll review it within 24 hours.
• If I don't, there are 3 newer RERs in my area.
• If they don't, there are 5 Google Reviewers (GR) that work my area.
• If they don't, there are dozens of non-area specialized GRs that will review it.

Some edits can sit for quite a while in order to be confirmed; I sometimes have to drive by them to confirm (we are always diligent when closing a business). However, this one is easy, as the Enterprise corporate website confirms it, so any reviewer will instantly approve. That's not to mention that I will be driving by both the old and new location today.

This is why I commented that I doubt that they are going to go through the thousands of such edits that hundreds of RERs and GRs approve daily, just to see if there is a hidden comment for a few of them.

---------- Post Merged at 11:20 AM ---------- Previous Post was at 11:15 AM ----------

*Edit* I didn't see Flash's edit before posting above. It looks like the UI for GMM needs updating to reflect the Moving notes

It doesn't just require that the notes finally come across. It also requires that we actually be given a field within the listing where we link it to the new listing.

---------- Post Merged at 11:20 AM ---------- Previous Post was at 11:15 AM ----------

*Edit* I didn't see Flash's edit before posting above. It looks like the UI for GMM needs updating to reflect the Moving notes

It doesn't just require that the notes finally come across. It also requires that we actually be given a field within the listing where we link it to the new listing.

 

[Flash]

re: New "Business Moved" Feature for Google+ Local Listings

But if it's NOT a matter of you guys needing to edit for some reason. But a business owner or consultant just using the new system and doing it right it should still work right? Your comments are only if a mapper gets involved and needs to edit a listing???

Forgot to address this question directly.

My point is, mappers will get involved with every single one of these edits. The directions provided are "How to submit an (closure) edit to the mappers", not "How to submit an edit to Places Support".

 

[Linda Buquet]

re: New "Business Moved" Feature for Google+ Local Listings

Good points all and you are right. I was rushed trying to help a bunch of people with various problems. Of course the edits are going to need to be approved by mappers or Googlers so everything is going to have to jive across to MM.

No Andrew, we have not been able to find an example in the wild yet. Jade and Mike are both looking. Will share once we have an example.

I'm going to let Jade know about all the issues you guys raised and thanks for pointing them out.

 

[Flash]

re: New "Business Moved" Feature for Google+ Local Listings

Shall I complicate this even further?

Let's pretend that they quickly make changes to get the comments to actually show in the edit that is up for review.

And that they make changes to allow us to put a pointer to the new listing within the old listing.

And they change the Map Maker guidelines so that a move within the city involves closing one listing and creating a new one, rather than the current process which has us change the address within the existing POI (listing).

So you submit an edit that says location A is closed, and give the address of the new location B. And then, following the other Places processes, you create a new listing in the Places dashboard for location B; a listing that will go live in 3 -5 weeks.

Later that day I, the reviewer in your area, check it over. I see you've indicated in the comments that this is actually a move and that they new address is provided. I check the new address, and there is not a POI at that location. I thus create a new one, approve the closure on the old one, and point the old one to the new one.

Sounds great... until your actual claimed listing goes live 3 - 5 weeks later and now you have a duplicate. Not only that, but your old listing points to the duplicate, not to the claimed listing.


They are going to have to include in the process that you don't mark your old location closed until the new one goes live. But chances are that in the meantime someone (it could be a volunteer mapper, a Google Maps/Map Maker employee, or just someone in the public using Community Edits) will mark your old location closed and what I described above will still happen.

 

[Linda Buquet]

re: New "Business Moved" Feature for Google+ Local Listings

Oh man you are right and I can see it happening. Wonder if someone thought all this through?

Is it currently taking 3 - 5 weeks for a new listing to go live? If I set up a new listing today how long til it shows in MM? Anyone know? Is it that long???

 

[Flash]

Re: HOORAY! New "Business Moved" Feature for Google+ Local Listings

I see lots of reports of 2 and even 3 weeks for the PIN to arrive. It's then 1 - 2 weeks or more before the listing goes live, though the Pending message hangs around for a few weeks more to really confuse them.

For a Places claimed listing, it does not go live in MM until it is live in Places/Maps. If you claim an existing listing, it disappears from MM during the verification period. If you start typing it in the search bar and it appears in the auto-suggest, but then can't be found, it was recently taken down in Places for either violations or due to being Pending.

---------- Post Merged at 10:18 PM ---------- Previous Post was at 10:09 PM ----------

No Andrew, we have not been able to find an example in the wild yet. Jade and Mike are both looking. Will share once we have an example.

I doubt you'll find one live in wild. Let's just ignore the fact that there is no known process within the database to point an old POI at a new one. You're not going to find any in the wild because this relies on reviewers in Map Maker approving a closure edit that does not meet our guidelines.

 

[Linda Buquet]

Re: HOORAY! New "Business Moved" Feature for Google+ Local Listings

Oh sorry wasn't clear, I thought you were saying live takes 3 - 5 weeks AFTER verification. But you are right even if only takes a week to go live after verification (which is more like my impression from cases at the G forum) and you add in a conservative week to get PIN in mail, that's 2 weeks. Plenty of time for the edit to get picked up and a dupe to be created just like you said.

I doubt you'll find one live in wild. Let's just ignore the fact that there is no known process within the database to point an old POI at a new one. You're not going to find any in the wild because this relies on reviewers in Map Maker approving a closure edit that does not meet our guidelines.

Unless there's it's an out of town move, then you'd approve though right?

Bottom line, I guess none of this is ready for prime time yet. I told everyone it's just starting to roll out. Sounds like some work left to be done.

 

[Flash]

Re: HOORAY! New "Business Moved" Feature for Google+ Local Listings

Yes, we'd approve an out of town move, but those are rare. I see those more in service area businesses (I envision spouse of the main bread winner runs a home based business, they move due to the main breadwinner's job, and the spouse sets up the business again in the new location), so those aren't mappable in the first place.

When you say 1 week for the post card, you are taking a US only view of the product. Just to get to me, 1 mile north of the US border, would take an extra 5 days or so in customs.

My first point ads another wrinkle. What about a SAB that has to hide their address who moves? They aren't allowed a marker in Maps. We would approve the closure their old location, but we would not open them a new one; so we would not set this hypothetical future pointer.

---------- Post Merged at 11:07 PM ---------- Previous Post was at 11:05 PM ----------

Oh, and you may not consider it ready for prime time; but I saw Jade jump in on a post on the forums a few hours ago and encourage a person asking about moving to use the new process.

 

[Linda Buquet]

re: New "Business Moved" Feature for Google+ Local Listings

I don't think she realizes yet all the additional problems. I've been gone all afternoon/eve, so had only alerted her to you and Andrew's 1st posts. So she likely does not even realize all these new issues that have been raised.

Can't keep eyes open, will have to tell her tomorrow.

Thanks!

 

[Flash]

re: New "Business Moved" Feature for Google+ Local Listings

Best way to get this to actually work:

1. Create the field for the new location pointer in each listing that we can use in Map Maker. If there is a pointer that points the opposite way, it should auto-fill based on the first pointer; you can't create a situation where people can create non-logical trails. I'm not sure what you'd use to point; perhaps the CID? If so, then the CID needs to start being published as a field in Map Maker so people can easily find it.
2. Create a new field in the Community Edits screen that corresponds to this new field in Map Maker.
3. Have people use Community Edits to mark their location closed. Instruct them to very clearly state in the comments "Location moved, new location has been set up within Places and will go live in the future, please do not create a new location." There is no need to include the address of the new location at this time, this is just to inform the reviewer who will likely discover the move during his research.
4. Set up the new location via Places and verify it.
5. Once it is live, owner/consultant returns to the Community Edits page for the old location and checks the box that was created in step 2, and adds in either the new address or a link to the new listing.
6. Reviewer uses the info in this new edit to mark the flag created in step 1.

Even this has it's issues, as it requires the reviewers to do some edits themselves. All other edits are set up so that we just have to review, not edit. But I don't know a simple, reliable method to point to the new listing that would work for the users of Community Edits nor for less technical users of Map Maker.

Alternative method

1. Same
2. Same
3. Have people use Community Edits to mark their location closed with a comment providing the new address. Tell them not to set up a new listing within Places.
4. Reviewer approves and (hopefully, as he's not required to) sets up a new POI at the new address. Reviewer sets the flag in step 1 at this point.
5. Owner/consultant claims the new listing after he sees that is has been set up.

The reason for still doing step 2 above even though it is not used in the process is for when people come across closed businesses that don't have the pointer set.

Neither method flows well, but it's all I can think of that accomplishes what they are trying to set up.

 

[Linda Buquet]

re: New "Business Moved" Feature for Google+ Local Listings

Thanks so much Gregg. Bumping this up to Jade with all your new updates, concerns and advice!

 

[joelh]

re: New "Business Moved" Feature for Google+ Local Listings

I'm glad there's so much interest in the feature and how this will work in Map Maker.

First, Map Maker's policy is behind a bit. Let me be clear about Google's preferences here.

We want people to edit locations if the information is wrong and hasn't ever represented a "true", ground truth state for the location - change the address, etc...

If a business has moved (regardless of distance), the old location should be closed and a new location should be created.

Regarding the timing between verification and creation of a listing via Map Maker and community edits - if the location is the same, they will cluster or merge together. The duplicate issue shouldn't be happening in practice, regardless of the time delay between verification and a newly created listing via other means.

If a duplicate does crop up, they can be merged through report a problem.

 

[Linda Buquet]

re: New "Business Moved" Feature for Google+ Local Listings

Thanks so much for joining and taking the time to clarify Joel.

We really appreciate the additional details so we can be sure we are on the same page
AND giving clients the correct advice.

 

[Flash]

re: New "Business Moved" Feature for Google+ Local Listings

Joel, I can appreciate that the idea of closing every listing and opening a new one will cause a lot less data issues; I like the idea. But this doesn't get past the fact that this new policy involves getting the edit reviewed in Map Maker, who's guidelines say to deny the edit.

 

[Linda Buquet]

re: New "Business Moved" Feature for Google+ Local Listings

Joel we have a couple other hot threads debating whether in-city moves can be handled by closing/opening new in MapMaker and saying those listings should be edited instead of closed.

This one in particular: http://localsearchforum.catalystema...-finally-releases-how-move-local-listing.html

So I will go and quote + link to your reply above to attempt to help clear the air on this issue.

Thanks again for weighing in!