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In our info-packed InsideLocal Webinar last week Mike Blumenthal dropped a big bombshell that I think surprised all of us. Even me! If Myles didn't have everyone on mute I think we would have heard a big gasp!
The centroid is not the centroid???
Not only that, but you'll see in my example at bottom the centroid MOVES & CHANGES!
Mike said the centroid is NOT city center. Which is what I've always assumed. He explained that it's calculated by Google to be the center of that particular industry hub within that city.
When he said that I about fell off my chair. I'm like "why didn't I ever think of that - I've seen it I just didn't realize what I was seeing." Mike has this way of finding things I'm looking right at and just missed the significance of. That's why we call him 'the professor'!
When you do a search and your client does not rank, check the small map right on Google search and see if they are off the map or outside the cluster of businesses Google thinks is the centroid. Examples below.
If you had a Dentist in downtown Atlanta or just south of town they WOULD NOT RANK. Because they are cut out of the map based on the centroid radius Google has determined to be the center for Dental offices near Atlanta.
(See my example of this problem with one of my clients below the next screenshot.)
In this example the proximity issue is magnified and the "centroid" for car dealers is much further north of the city. You could have a client near downtown and think "they are closest to city center why can't I get them in the pack?" Answer is - they are not in the centroid, even though they are near center of town.
REAL WORLD EXAMPLE:
I actually have this problem with a Pediatric Dentist. I have them ranked #2 in organic and #1 in maps. Once I finished all their optimization I moved them from C to A in the pack.
But they keep popping in and out of the 7 pack. Lately it's crazy! One week they are in and the next they are out. (And they REALLY insist on being in the pack and don't want to be in organic, because they've worked so hard on their reviews.)
The 1st time they disconnected from blended and dropped out of the pack, I found a dupe and thought that knocked them out of the pack. Fixed it. They came back.
But then they dropped out of the pack and started jumping in and out. Even though they have NONE of the standard problems that cause a listing to disconnect from blended.
They watch that pack like a hawk and email me every time they pop up to #2 organic (above the pack) because they don't want to be there. They want IN the pack!
Over the course of time, I've taken screenshots of their rankings and started noticing something - they are pretty far south of town. There is another high ranking Dentist on the north of town that would drop out of the pack every time they did. Then I started noticing that whenever they would pop out of blended, it would be when Google either shrank the map radius (cutting them both out) or moved it a little north - literally cutting my Dentist out of the picture.
Sooo with the new knowledge Mike provided about the centroid, I went back and looked at all the screenshots. Sure enough, that centroid radius moves and changes. The only time they pop out of the pack and up to pure organic is when they are cut out of the search radius Google has determined is the centroid for that industry - because they are just a little too far south!
In one screenshot where they were back in the pack at letter A - I noticed the map was zoomed WAY out to like a 5 city area. So they showed up because the map expanded wide enough to show them.
So possibly the map and centroid opens up or shifts, if some Dentists in the more outlying areas do some press releases, or get a bunch of 3rd party reviews for instance???
Mike referred to a patent that covers all of this. I'm not sure if this is the one he's referring to or if it's some other. I'll ask him to shed more light on this.
Patent US8046371 - Scoring local search results based on location prominence - Google Patents
Check out that patent. Seriously you need to read and try to understand it. There is a TON of rich info about the algo including weight of citations and reviews and how all that figures into the calculations.
The patent uses weird terminology and keeps referring to "documents" but essentially I think part of it at least is saying it uses # of reviews and citations (including 3rd party reviews), to determine where the cluster of businesses are that relate to the query.
I know a lot of you were on the webinar and probably gasped when Mike said that about the centroid and I think it turned on a huge light for all of us. (If I remember right it's about 17 minutes in. Sorry, the video is delayed. Hopefully will be posted tomorrow.)
Any questions, comments or examples to share?
I'll alert Mike to this thread and see if he'll weigh in if he has anything to add or link to another patent if that's the wrong one.
The centroid is not the centroid???
Not only that, but you'll see in my example at bottom the centroid MOVES & CHANGES!
Mike said the centroid is NOT city center. Which is what I've always assumed. He explained that it's calculated by Google to be the center of that particular industry hub within that city.
When he said that I about fell off my chair. I'm like "why didn't I ever think of that - I've seen it I just didn't realize what I was seeing." Mike has this way of finding things I'm looking right at and just missed the significance of. That's why we call him 'the professor'!
When you do a search and your client does not rank, check the small map right on Google search and see if they are off the map or outside the cluster of businesses Google thinks is the centroid. Examples below.
If you had a Dentist in downtown Atlanta or just south of town they WOULD NOT RANK. Because they are cut out of the map based on the centroid radius Google has determined to be the center for Dental offices near Atlanta.
(See my example of this problem with one of my clients below the next screenshot.)
In this example the proximity issue is magnified and the "centroid" for car dealers is much further north of the city. You could have a client near downtown and think "they are closest to city center why can't I get them in the pack?" Answer is - they are not in the centroid, even though they are near center of town.
REAL WORLD EXAMPLE:
I actually have this problem with a Pediatric Dentist. I have them ranked #2 in organic and #1 in maps. Once I finished all their optimization I moved them from C to A in the pack.
But they keep popping in and out of the 7 pack. Lately it's crazy! One week they are in and the next they are out. (And they REALLY insist on being in the pack and don't want to be in organic, because they've worked so hard on their reviews.)
The 1st time they disconnected from blended and dropped out of the pack, I found a dupe and thought that knocked them out of the pack. Fixed it. They came back.
But then they dropped out of the pack and started jumping in and out. Even though they have NONE of the standard problems that cause a listing to disconnect from blended.
They watch that pack like a hawk and email me every time they pop up to #2 organic (above the pack) because they don't want to be there. They want IN the pack!
Over the course of time, I've taken screenshots of their rankings and started noticing something - they are pretty far south of town. There is another high ranking Dentist on the north of town that would drop out of the pack every time they did. Then I started noticing that whenever they would pop out of blended, it would be when Google either shrank the map radius (cutting them both out) or moved it a little north - literally cutting my Dentist out of the picture.
Sooo with the new knowledge Mike provided about the centroid, I went back and looked at all the screenshots. Sure enough, that centroid radius moves and changes. The only time they pop out of the pack and up to pure organic is when they are cut out of the search radius Google has determined is the centroid for that industry - because they are just a little too far south!
In one screenshot where they were back in the pack at letter A - I noticed the map was zoomed WAY out to like a 5 city area. So they showed up because the map expanded wide enough to show them.
So possibly the map and centroid opens up or shifts, if some Dentists in the more outlying areas do some press releases, or get a bunch of 3rd party reviews for instance???
Mike referred to a patent that covers all of this. I'm not sure if this is the one he's referring to or if it's some other. I'll ask him to shed more light on this.
Patent US8046371 - Scoring local search results based on location prominence - Google Patents
Check out that patent. Seriously you need to read and try to understand it. There is a TON of rich info about the algo including weight of citations and reviews and how all that figures into the calculations.
The patent uses weird terminology and keeps referring to "documents" but essentially I think part of it at least is saying it uses # of reviews and citations (including 3rd party reviews), to determine where the cluster of businesses are that relate to the query.
I know a lot of you were on the webinar and probably gasped when Mike said that about the centroid and I think it turned on a huge light for all of us. (If I remember right it's about 17 minutes in. Sorry, the video is delayed. Hopefully will be posted tomorrow.)
Any questions, comments or examples to share?
I'll alert Mike to this thread and see if he'll weigh in if he has anything to add or link to another patent if that's the wrong one.